- cross-posted to:
- technology@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- technology@beehaw.org
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The only useful thing ive found for AI is its ability to read text from an image. Which is good for taking serial numbers from a photo, and copying from an app that otherwise doesnt allow copying on phone. Thats it. A tool.
that function is just reskinned OCR, though
which I guess you could consider as AI and that it is a similar training data structure? not my area lol
I do also think that AI has some use as a search engine. I haven’t used it much for this purpose at all, but a while back there was a specific type of engineering analysis I needed to do, and I couldn’t remember the exact terms or topics to look up. chat GPT got me into the right area so I could look at the appropriate resources. in that specific scenario, it was better than a standard search engine
Of course once I found the materials I was looking for, I stopped using the chat bot and you know use those materials
I also find LLMs decent for translating text between languages, though for serious use it still requires human review
So while previously the translation feature was supported by an extension, now it has to be enabled through ai.
Hate it.
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Browsers don’t need LLMs
The only people that are into LLMs are scientist (which is reasonable) and tech bros.
The later just think it’s useful while for 99% of people there just isn’t a usecase.
I guess I’m in both groups. I love LLMs, but then again I have academic degree in AI.
Though I must also admit - look how they massacred my boy. LLMs could be used in games to make every NPC a talkative character or work as a customer support during off-hours of small businesses… instead they are used to generate advertisements faster.
Im super happy to see so many upvotes for this most excellent browser!
Remember when they had a “kill switch” for javascript?
It’s available as an extension: https://webextension.org/listing/javascript-toggler.html
Yeah. Used to be native. Like the slop kill switch currently is. Then won’t be.
That’s nice, still uninstalled out of principle.
What did Mozilla do?
Too little too late.
“Kill switch” – oh the drama. Let’s call every simple toggle ‘kill switch’ from now on.
i have a violently execute switch in my room (it toggles the lamp on or off)
For it to be a kill switch it would have to actually terminate a rogue AI.
Yeah, call me when Firefox creates terminators that infiltrate and destroy data centers and then themselves.
What’s worse…you could always toggle it. In fact, you could re-route it to your own local LLM.
Drama drama cheesecake drama
So, there’s a “bug”, though I expect to FF it’s a feature: If you individually block all of the AI features, then click on the master switch to block all AI, everything’s great. But if you revert that master switch suddenly it “forgets” all of your settings and shit is activated again.
It seems by design. And since it’s opt in, if FF “accidentally” disables the master switch (I’m betting it will eventually) you lose that extra layer of protection. OH, and I had disabled EVERYTHING in registry (about:config) before this and translations were still available. I guess it’s time for me to explore other FF-core options…
Lmao, semi common design mistake? MUST BE INTENTIONAL!
I don’t think I’m being paranoid by saying it:
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opt-out rollout of every AI feature
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only slogging through registry to manual opt out until now
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CEO and board hell bent on monetizing and delivering features users actively do not want. I.e., enshitification
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I have seen my own AI registry changes revert already once after a patch
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It’s just a lazy/poor design.
Instead of each setting having its own bit with one ‘override’ bit, they just set override by setting each bit.
I’d say you’re being generous calling it poor design. It’s actually reverting to “default” on settings when you uncheck instead of storing individual bits and honoring those. Why not revert to opted out - OK, that may be lazy to use a single template, but that’s not the way some of their other “master” options work. And I’ve been a FF user since it’s first releases, so this isn’t some Mozilla hate. And I won’t be going to anything Chromium and because of inertia I may just stick to FF.
It’s also crazy that I have been manually configuring away from AI since it wasn’t even opt out… it was forced in. Most aren’t going to do that and Mozilla knew it going in. And I’ve already seen those registry settings revert once. Since this control option literally should have been the first feature for AI delivered and their entire AI push has an untrustworthy stink, I’ll say it again: I await a future release bumping the setting back “on”. “Oopsie! you can just turn it back off or wait for the next patch” after Mozilla and their partners collect their information across millions of users that aren’t paying attention.
Wow some people really hate AI huh. Did a robot kill your father or something?
I, the laziest man possible, have been motivated to switch already. Waterfox is working just fine.
Mozilla has released so many self-described AI features in the past few years, but this is the only one that has:
- been requested by the community
- received broad critical acclaim
I hope Mozilla learns their lesson. I doubt they will, but I hope.
To be fair people liked the translation feature too
Ssshhh don’t say that too loud or the “no one wanted this” crowd may hear you. They would be very scared if they could read.
In the original announcement that they added translation, they didn’t call it AI. They didn’t even call it machine “learning” or machine translation there.
They just called it local, automated translation.
Maybe you should take your own advice about reading, and double-check my comment ;)
When I turned it off the translation thingy went away, so I’m not sure if it was AI all along and they were lying about it or not. Just as well, there’s an extension that works fine and it doesn’t reload the page every time I toggled it like the built in one did.
The translation is technically AI, but it’s a distant cousin to the LLMs and image generators that have repulsed so many people. (The term AI is such a broad and vague umbrella that Netflix recommendations count as AI.) And, even more notably, this is before Mozilla started marketing things as AI.
It was also a joint non-profit venture with a university, rather than today’s weird gimmicks or for-profit partnerships.
TWP does it better.
TWP dumps your pages to google translate, no thanks. FF is on device
You don’t have to use google translate (there are 2 other services included), and TWP doesn’t reload the page when you toggle the translate function off and on like the built in one did.
sadly I’ll likely support them through any shitty decisions they make as they are the only viable non-chromium alternative these days.
I get they’re chasing the buck and trying to stay relevant, but uhhhh… if they could be less Steve Buscemi-teen about it, that’d be great.
I strongly believe that the EU should fund Mozilla, or a fork of Firefox.
Gecko is the only viable competitor to Blink/WebKit, and it is needed
Maybe funding components would be better than funding mozilla. Eg: 2 engineers for Gecko
Govts around the world should be funding all sorts of FOSS projects. I know they do to some degree but not much. It benefits the whole world and only hurts big tech.
That prospect becomes less and less likely the more government is bought and paid for by Big Tech.
This is what people don’t understand. Those in power, whether they’re part of the government, a wealthy CEO, or a religious leader, will do what benefits themselves if they think they can get away with it. We keep talking about powerful organizations and what they could do to benefit everyone, but fail to realize that powerful people don’t want to benefit everyone.
They only do what benefits everyone if they feel like they can’t get away with just doing what benefits themselves. It’s our responsibility to make sure they don’t think they can get away with it, and clearly strongly-worded letters and quippy signs held outside their offices for an afternoon or two isn’t enough to do that.
Funding FF? Maybe. Funding Mozilla? No way, not with my money.
Why?
Firefox is just the browser, Mozilla is the organization constantly wasting money on features Firefox’s users are actively hostile to in a bid to tempt away people already using Chrome. Not the OP, but I’d be down to donate to Firefox’s development directly, but I wouldn’t want to make a donation to Mozilla hoping it would go toward Firefox, only to find out they took my money to build some new LLM integration that nobody asked for, only to sit unused for years before being quietly shuttered in favor of the new tech buzzword of the day.
Yeah I really hope there will be some way to tie donations directly to FF development.
This is probably common knowledge to you and many others, but it bears repeating: You cannot donate to fund the development of Mozilla Firefox.
Google can, unfortunately.
I recommend Waterfox
They have pledged to not fill their browser with AI slop features.
Last time I tried Waterfox some sites like Twitch that actively block usage on old browsers, refused to work because the latest Waterfox release was based on a Firefox like 20+ builds behind.
Firefox was on like version 142 and the latest Waterfox download was based on build 128.
Waterfox right now is built on ESR 148, which is on par with the latest Firefox release! ESR releases will lag several versions behind, but that’s normal (even on Mozilla’s side), and I’d be kind of shocked if it was such a big gap
Edit: there was a big gap. 128 to 140 was the right jump, but Waterfox non-betas took a little less than two months to implement the change after Mozilla released it.
I have used it for twitch for years without issue. I also have ublock origin with twitch adblock.
Well you clearly haven’t used the standard available download (non-beta/nightly release) consistently through last year. Waterfox was using ESR 128 since October 2024, kept that base until finally upgrading to ESR 140 last August. So that’s nearly a year of its base being out of date. So the user agent reported that number… sites really don’t like that since they’re looking at that for support.
https://www.waterfox.com/releases/6.5.0/ https://www.waterfox.com/releases/6.6.0/
Twitch only supports the last TWO versions of Firefox officially and will actively block logging in from older versions. So while you might be able to watch Twitch, if you aren’t already logged in, you won’t be able to login.
https://help.twitch.tv/s/article/supported-browsers?language=en_US
There are thousands of posts about it online for Waterfox other forks.
It was outdated, but only for a couple months. Firefox ESR is built to last about a year, and it was maintained with security patches up-to-date alongside Firefox Production versions 129, 130, 131, 132… all the way to 139. Only then did ESR 140 come out.
But if Twitch only supports the two most recent Firefox production versions, I guess ESR wouldn’t cut it after FF 131 came out.
I have used the standard available download on multiple operating systems for years without issues with twitch.
Quintessential “works for me” response. Must be a software developer.
If everyone switched from firefox to waterfox, Mozilla would kill firefox which would in turn will waterfox
Yeah ofc they are chasing the buck.
It’s either they find alternatives revenue streams or we no longer have Firefox as a viable alternative anymore.
Browsers development is crazy engineering heavy, and thus, expensive.
It’s a shitty situation all around.
Ladybird browser looks promising!
The ladybird devs are currently in the process of switching language again from Swift to Rust, using LLMs.
Yup. Don’t use or support Ladybird, especially since it’s made by anti-inclusivity “keep your ‘political’ gender-neutral pronouns out of our READMEs” nerdbros.
On the other hand, Servo is coming along nicely.
https://github.com/LadybirdBrowser/ladybird/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md
Use gender-neutral pronouns, except when referring to a specific person.
?
Problem is Mozilla needs money and shoving AI features into shit is how you get investors these past few years.
You think VC is putting money into firefox? Wtf?
Funnily enough, it’s the other way around: Mozilla has been dumping money into AI VC startups.
I don’t think the vietcong are doing much of anything for the past couple decades.
I think they’re desperate to make money since they’re losing userbass AND Google is probably not happy that most users change the default search engine away from them.
Does anyone really think the current administration is going to break up Google? Lina Khan almost did it but like most of the rest of this timeline we just didn’t quite get there
Yeah it’s a catch 22.
They either fail to get a big enough use base because their core users are not enough and they fail from a lack of funding.
Or they try to follow trends to increase their appeal and user base, and annoy their core users.
Most users don’t realize that Mozilla is doing what Google is doing with Chrome with an engineering team 1/4 the size of the chrome team. And that the grand majority of their costs are engineering related.
Browsers are expensive, and Mozilla needs to find revenue streams to pay for it.
I believe Firefox could raise a lot of money through donations. If they make it clear that Firefox donations will be solely used for Firefox development. Also ideally add a quick survey to donations to see what the “donating” userbases values are. My issue with donating to Mozilla is that it is too broad and they have many products I don’t care for.
I use Thunderbird and donate to it because I feel it’s more focused. I believe Mozilla still can use the funds for other stuff but at least I am donating for a clear project.
Firefox donations will be solely used for Firefox development
This might be a stupid question… but how much developing does a browser actually need? I get security updates and such but how much resources does that stuff really need? Full disclosure: I’m a dumb lorry driver I have no idea how these things work. Some years ago I realized I hadn’t updated my browser in at least a year, maybe two and I had no issues lol
Infinite money Google keeps trying to push shit to the standard so all other browsers end up needing significant dedicated resources to keep up or risk getting blamed for broken sites.
Iceraven is my go to Android browser, librewolf on desktop.
I like playing around with them occasionally, but I only use local models. I cannot stand all the cloud stuff in general and with the way neural nets work you can get as good or better results out of a smaller/more narrow model and the same applies to LLMs.
The massive models the big companies are putting out there are generally just bad. Even if it can occasionally give you accurate output, for whatever it is you are asking it to do, it uses way more power and resources than reasonable and you could have found what you were looking for with a simple web search.I feel like it’s essentially a superfuled semantic search.
I can put in multiple issues and symptoms and it spits out a websearch that mostly applies to my reported issue.
