California Attorney General Rob Bonta last night filed a request for a preliminary injunction in California’s existing case against Amazon for price fixing. Attorney General Bonta’s 2022 lawsuit alleged that the company stifled competition and caused increased prices across California through its anticompetitive policies in order to avoid competing on price with other retailers. New evidence paints a clearer and more shocking picture. The motion for a preliminary injunction comes after a robust discovery process where California uncovered evidence of countless interactions in which Amazon, vendors, and Amazon’s competitors agree to increase and fix the prices of products on other retail websites to bolster Amazon’s profits. Time and again, across years and product categories, Amazon has reached out to its vendors and instructed them to increase retail prices on competitors’ websites, threatening dire consequences if vendors do not comply. Vendors, bullied by Amazon’s overwhelming bargaining leverage and fearing punishment, comply — agreeing to raise prices on competitors’ websites (often with the awareness and cooperation of the competing retailer), or to remove products from competing websites altogether. Amazon’s goal is to insulate itself from price competition by preventing lower retail prices in the market at the expense of American consumers who are already struggling with a crisis of affordability.
BREAKING NEWS!!
Evil company known for being evil is caught doing evil things!
👏🏻 We 👏🏻 demand 👏🏻 public 👏🏻 executions 👏🏻
Nothing will change until there’s jail time for executives.
But but but capitalism, free market, competition, etc. etc. etc …
New evidence shows Amazon, its vendors, and competing retailers are price fixing, hiking up prices for consumer products and making Amazon richer and richer
So, jail time it is for Jeff Bezos, right?
You joke, but…
Well, yeah, it’s just a joke. Not a funny one, either.
You can stop buying from Amazon whenever you choose to. There are online alternatives to every product they sell. You don’t need to be part of it. Whatever excuse you give is wrong.
I’ve pointed out Valve doing basically the same thing; games can’t be priced lower than Steam on competing game storefronts (not Steam key resellers), or Valve will threaten to delist your game. Which would be essentially kill it. And they obviously do this to protect their chunky store fee.
But personal loyalty goes a long way.
I’m trying to reframe the perspective here, not drag into an argument about Valve. A whole lot of people feel good about finding “deals” on Amazon, about Amazon services that have helped them, and especially about the value and convenience the whole platform provides. It’s easy for Lemmy to hate on Amazon, but for the average person, I think this is a harder sell than most of us realize. They’ll dismiss it as the “market working” or California sensationalism or, more likely, just filter it out as noise in their feed, just like most PC gamers would when they read something bad about Valve.
The Valve example sounds similar, but I think Amazon is comparably more nefarious:
- Valve chargers developers $100 per title, and a revenue sharing fee that starts at 30%
- in exchange, devs must follow Valve’s content and pricing policies (which requires developers not to undercut Steam’s prices
Amazon has a few different tiers for sellers, but in general, they charge:
- Monthly fees ($39.99 / mo)
- Referral fees (8-15%)
- Fulfillment and refund fees, which includes additional storage fees
- Advertising fees (for keyword bids or sponsored products)
Valve is kind enough to offer free promotion on the home page (if your game is popular, or has a sale), and digital games are much easier to scale, versus manufacturing and holding physical inventory. They also do a lot of nefarious shit (loot boxes…), but I’d argue at least their partners aren’t being squeezed quite as much.
This is exactly my point; it’s easy to jump in and defend Valve for their good points when, at the end of the day, they take a third of all profits for themselves and have a pseudo monopoly with their platform, just to start.
One can make similar positive points about Amazon, about how much they can save retailers and consumers, especially before they enshittified so significantly.
I boycott pretty much all the big corporations. I can’t really boycott Amazon because I am in a super rural part of the US and run a small business. Like most small businesses I purchase a lot of random doodads and thingamabobbers from china. Amazons monopoly on the US post office and their logistic network that gets bulk goods from china to my house is hard to live without. They fix more than prices, the whole economy is stacked in their favor. They basically won globalism and it was bad for the globe.
Valves scope is much smaller and less destructive. They keep their customers due to loyalty and the investment into a steam library.
Yeah…
That’s how Amazon worked. At first.
Back then, online shopping kind of sucked, and this little book store company made its so streamlined I got invested.
Valve’s not a good guy, but your attempt to “reframe the perspective” is lacking a major detail. If amazon were to simply GIVE you the product after you’ve paid the competitor then it’s quite a different story… yet that’s what steam will do.
Since when does steam just give away games just because you bought them from another storefront?
I think they’re talking about Steam key resellers, which I wasn’t referencing. That’s a whole other thing (and can indeed be priced lower than the main storefront, with some complications IIRC).
oh I just cant wait for the highest profile minor slap on the wrist of the century!
Dont worry guys well give one of the richest men in the world a 100k fine!
Yeah don’t worry. They’ll get a small fine and will appeal and drag it out for years
I could see them threatening something absurd like no longer shipping to California.
The issue I’ve had with the “Just shop somewhere else. Don’t use Amazon” is that it’s very US-specific response. Amazon has absolutely dominated the online shopping space in Canada for years because they are one of the few companies that dealt with the biggest reason why shopping online in Canada has been difficult: Shipping. $20-$40+ domestic shipping fees are normal in Canada for most other retailers which means you could be paying double the cost of your order (or more) just on shipping alone, so as soon as Amazon came in and offered free coast-to-coast shipping they had basically won the market instantly. There were teething issues, of course, and their earlier shipping contractors were horrendous but they did smooth most of that out.
Nowadays they still have very little competition that can beat them on shipping, but there are more and more options popping up. There are some Canadian online stores that offer free shipping or free if over a certain reasonable amount. The COVID pandemic really pushed a lot of local retailers to set up affordable online ordering and delivery systems for local customers, so that has also become an option. Aliexpress has also greatly improved their free shipping process to Canada and considering most of what Amazon sells is just rebranded Aliexpress stuff, it’s a great way of getting the same items for cheaper if you’re ok waiting a few extra days. So most of my online purchases these days have been a mixture of Canadian retailers and Aliexpress.
They’re BUSTED when someone goes to prison.
For now they’re just SLAMMED
Just wait until they get BLASTED in a strongly worded email.
Well, it’s California’s attorney general, so better than even chance for actual punishment.
“Europeans need to be harder on Amazon” Wags greased finger
Yeah, IIRC when a bunch of large corporations got away with doing this in the 1980s and 90s, a lot of us just assumed it would keep happening. Some people have tried raising the alarm about this, but have been shouted down pretty consistently.
Were Boomers in power then? Ah, yeah they took over sitting as president after Regan, so like late 80s/early 90s. They’ve been sitting as president since, and they’re the most spoiled generation there has ever been. So, it makes sense they’d ignore anything with consequences later down the line. Everything was handed to them, then they hiked up the ladder behind them.
There was a time when Amazon was not full of scummy rip-off products, when it was not playing games with prices, when it was not a cloud-computing powerhouse, and you know what happened?
That’s right, they crushed their adversaries (retail shopping) and earned billions in profits. They won.
But somehow that’s not enough winning, there isn’t enough winning until all the value has been vacuumed up from the world.
Bezos explicitly undercut the competition for years to drive all of the competition out of business. Amazon took as much time from 1997-2016 to make as much profit as they did in 2017, which is also (not) coincidentally when they hit peak market saturation and were able to start raising their prices.
So what you’re talking about was real, but it wasn’t like, “back when Amazon was good”, they were just preparing for what they are now. Having a huge monopoly on just about everything has always been their win condition, and they’re no where near done winning.
Yeah. It’s the same thing Uber did with pushing cab services out of business.
Not only that, but AWS is the real money maker for them. Not that retail and gaming and prime and whatever don’t also make boat loads of cash, but it doesn’t even graze AWS. The scale of these data centers is unreal and most of the internet runs on AWS.
I’m an industrial electrician with background on what they’re ordering and installing in terms of control panels and if you saw the weekly shipments it’d make you sick. And we’re only one supplier, they have others.
I think it’s worse because Bezos (ex-wallstreet) had his buddies at Bain Capital short-and-distort competing companies into bankruptcy, which has the added bonus of clearing the tax burden from the gains on those shorts.
And that is why I no longer buy anything from them. I’m just embarrassed it took me as long as it did to realize what they were really doing.
The frustrating thing is we can’t boycott AWS since so many of the sites we use run on it. But yes, we absolutely shouldn’t buy things through Amazon or any of the other web stores Amazon owns.
we absolutely shouldn’t buy things through Amazon or any of the other web stores Amazon owns.
I try to use eBay as an alternative, though i find every 3-4 orders i place there, i get one in an Amazon box that by all rights appears to have been shipped by Amazon. I swear people are drop-shipping stuff from Amazon to their eBay buyers.
They are. If it has free returns and thousands of feedback it’s probably a drop shipper. Return it and use the eBay label it ends up costing them money.
Go figure the margins are that thin.
They are doing exactly that for a sometimes hefty markup. I got something like that with a gift receipt, so ultra lazy, looked up the item and it was $11 cheaper. Like that totally defeats the purpose of going elsewhere.
I reported the seller then returned it.
I have often wondered whether targeted internet boycott days would shake up AWS, but I don’t know enough about their billing structure to run the numbers to see how much that would dig into AWS profits + how much of their income is flat subscription fees vs. billing on number of calls and haven’t had a chance to dig into it yet.
You would basically have to convince a few hundred million people to not use the internet for months at a time with out a single percentage of them breaking the boycott to actually even start to hit aws.
Countless things have to start failing before aws even starts to feel it since it’s not a consumer product. You basically have the drive all the companies using it to near bankruptcy so they can’t afford to pay for aws anymore.
Frustrating, but I appreciate your answer; thank you.
Use vercel instead
/s
AKA the Walmart method.
Walmart didn’t even touch amazon on this. There were articles for years about how mind boggling (and the articles were praising, not even critical of) it was that amazon’s investors were content to let bezos run amazon on a net zero or even negative profit model. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of walmart not pulling a profit.
You can’t really compare online book retailer Amazon to global online marketplace Amazon. Your underlying point is still mostly correct, but I would exclude the years that they were primarily focused on books. From my lived memory they didn’t really become the online retail juggernaut until a few years after the launch of Prime. Free shipping turned them into what it is today. So maybe the best comparison would be from like 2006-2016? Or maybe I’m wrong and the distinction isn’t necessary. Idk. I’m just trying to foster conversation
Yeah, I remember Amazon the book store. I still had my mom take me to the local bookstores, cause I knew them and the people, so I was comfortable lol. I remember when Prime launched. I don’t think anyone was expecting that, at the time. Free 2-day shipping on so many products was insane. And all for $89?/yr? Especially, when everywhere else online charged anywhere from $5-10. It was truly the Walmart of the online world. They ate shipping costs, which killed them, and put hurt their competition until AWS became such a powerhouse and they had a monopoly on online marketplaces.
That’s what’s crazy to me, they survived the dot com crash and were so diversified that I have no idea how they stayed afloat. I would think that all of the combined expenses across all of their ventures without a true cash cow would sink them. Instead they survived and became the trash heap of consumer rights violations that they are.
The reason Amazon survived is because they WEREN’T running a dozen different ventures. They were an online bookstore and people kept buying books. Amazon benefited from the crash because that was when they started buying up servers to build AWS. Prime was just free 2 day shipping on books when it launched.
Ehhh not really. They operated at massive losses for a decade or more to eliminate the competition while growing their customer base. This is simply stage 1 of enshittification. You can only do this if you’re unbelievably filthy fucking rich. Then at some point they needed to cash out on all the good will and reputation they developed and that brings us to the shithole economy of today where people are simply too lazy to shop anywhere else.
The other commenters here are right about Amazon’s initial methods, but I’m also going to highly recommend Cory Doctorow’s Enshittification for a detailed explanation of how this happens (including a breakdown on Amazon specifically) and what to do about it.
To quote a favorite singer of mine,
You could fill a man with gold, and still have room for greed.
It’s easy to crush the competition when you purposely take a loss as an investment in future market share.
I cannot express enough how angry I am that people still use amazon. Major cringe when friends tell me all the shit they buy on there. I used it 10 years ago a couple times, never once since then. Its shit, slave labor, and enriches billionaires. No one forces you to use it.
I avoid Amazon as much as possible, though on occasion I’ve more or less had no other reasonable choice. But that’s happened something like 4 times in the last 10 years or so.
The big problem with boycotting Amazon is that while it’s easy enough to avoid buying from their online store as much as possible, AWS (Amazon Web Services) is pretty much unavoidable if you’re using the modern internet.
Once all the competitors are gone, they will increase the prices to absurd, heartless levels
Its always the plan. Walmart. Discord. They all do the exact same thing. Which is why we must resist.
It’s cringe because it’s affordable and convenient? Whenever I buy something from there I always price compare online and it’s the cheapest hands-down. Some people don’t have the luxury of constantly considering geopolitics and large-scale repercussions when they’re just simply trying to get by.
It super depends on what you’re buying. Personally, I just go without in order to avoid them. The only things I ever buy from Amazon are things I cannot find anywhere else that I need to have, such as water filters for the lead pipes in Montréal.
We don’t have the luxury to ignore how bad Amazon is. Amazon is aware of this and does everything it can to force you to buy from them by under cutting other businesses until competition dries up. Every time I can buy something for a little bit more and skip Amazon that’s a huge a win for everyone from the original supplier, the more local store selling it, and the working class in general.
Edit: Reading and writing more comments, I’m gunna find a way to get those filters from elsewhere even if they cost a bunch more.
No bro water filters from Amazon are unethical, please expose yourself to lead because some guy on lemmy is virtue signaling /s
I cannot tell what side of the argument you’re trying to be on here, gunna be real hokest with ya.
Sure, but there’s many people who are wealthy enough to make the choice and still use amazon because they dont know any better. And this is what happens.
Understandable, perhaps one day I’ll be in that boat myself. Amazon has pissed me off in a few ways and I’m definitely looking for alternatives. Regardless of where I shop, I feel like my money is still going into the same greedy pockets unless it’s a local brick and mortar store.
“some people don’t have the luxury of considering whether their product is made from death camp body parts when they’re just simply trying to get by”
Jesus H Fucking Christ. How about electing a government that will regulate Amazon instead of comparing poor people who need consumer goods to nazis. This is some tankie ass behavior
You missed the point completely, so I’ll lay it out for you: Everyone has to draw a line SOMEWHERE. And when a country whose government sends fascist death squads into the streets is supported by a company, there’s a fuckton of lines to be drawn.
There’s ZERO excuse for doing business with amazon. No one is starving because they can’t shop there. So GTFO with your lazy ass morally corrupt exuses.
Yeah, these people saying they NEED amazon probably didn’t live in ye olden days without internet. We survived then, you can survive now.
There’s thousands if not millions of sellers all over the internet. People are lazy/dumb and just want to 1 click buy and are scared to go anywhere but amazon.
And then have the nerve to argue on behalf of “poor people” most of whom probably don’t have any spare money to buy convenience products on amazon.
I mean Walmart wiped out every other store so that’s usually where “poor” people have to go, especially in small towns. Amazon is doing it on a much larger scale.
Unfortunately, they are a master at driving local businesses out of money. Buying a certain pet food at my local retailer (a franchisee) would be about $30. On Amazon, it’s $25 (and sometimes even $15-20, if you do the subscription discount). At the local store, I’d have to pay more and drag the stuff home on my own feet.
It’s the Walmart model. A lot of the frustration is that it’s a systemic problem where individuals are incentivized against their best interests and the best interests of their communities.
Because shareholders. The Line, must go up.
Thankfully (/s) Amazon has enough money that it’s cheaper to bribe politicians than provide a better product. So systemic solutions are that much more difficult.
Feel free to provide goods to my rural community any time! You can’t believe that poor people have budget consideration and seek the cheapest product?
Use eBay or literally any other site. What is so specific to amazon that you need ? Amazon isn’t even cheaper in many cases if you actually search.
As far as distractions from the Epstein Files go, this is an exciting one.
Can’t wait for them to be fined one penny for every $20B made.
Hey now, don’t get your hopes up.
…did bezos get mixed up the honeypot?..
If America was a serious country they would break up Amazon for this AND arrest Bezos and send him to a random Supermax for corporate blackmail, mass fraud, and unfair competition. But I fear they never were.
America was bought by the corpos a long time ago.
One could argue it’s always been about the wealthy.
it has always been about cheap labor that’s for sure, the united stated was built by slaves, that’s why they love dubai so much
The Guantanamo Bay detention camp is a stain on America and a threat to all of us now.
I’m being hyperbolic, but I do think every CEO of every company in America worth hundreds of billions should be arrested, have their companies broken up, and said CEOs sent to Supermax prisons for mass fraud.
A nitpick, but America won’t have Gitmo in that scenario tho. Displacing american people to random countries now is deeply rooted in the premise it’s okay to have a torture camp franchized over to places out of everyone’s sight. It wasn’t okay before and it’s not now, and serious country with some sense and a accountability would not employ such tactic.
If you did want to nitpick Bezos hasn’t run Amazon since 2021, so we’d have to check when they were being accused of doing so.
5 years on and most of us think Bezos everytime we hear Amazon still
I mean, how can we be so sure Bezos doesn’t still have influence over Amazon? He sure owns a lot of stocks in it for obvious reasons. He’s bought the Washington Post to spread propaganda. He’s set up Blue Origin to get government contracts. I’ve no reason to believe that he’s not apart of the Amazon problem and their influence over American Markets.
Something about one big club.
He certainly has an influence - he’s still the chairman of the board. He gets to decide who gets fired and when. In some ways, he found a way to have more influence, while being less hands-on.
