I don’t quite understand the criticism. It’s not gonna be top of the line, but it’s more than enough to replace my dying laptop from 2015 that I pretty much only ever use like a desktop anyway. And I can save myself the time and effort of picking parts, building, and dealing with shit not working as expected.
You don’t use Linux because of kernel anti-cheats
I don’t play CoD because kernel anti-cheats
We are not the same
I do both!
On Linux?
I use FreeBSD btw!
This.
Exactly. Another lemming made a fantastic quip to this effect, claiming that consoles and windows are performing “SCP level containment” for the rest of us. Let them have CoD.
Yeah, but we know that Linux people would cheer and praise those games if Linux support was suddenly added
RIP BSD.
I genuinely do not understand the point of using kernel-level anticheats. They have been bypassed for nearly a decade now, you can buy cheats for any kernel-level anticheat game, battlefield 6 had hackers during the first betas, didn’t even take more than a day to bypass it. The only thing they seem to be affecting is your player count and review ratings
Indeed. I chalk it up to the power of narratives and emotions. These are emotional decisions by managers who don’t know what they’re doing but salivate at the opportunity to limit someone’s access to something for not paying them or for using something differently than how they’d like to after paying. You know, stupid s**t like kernel level anti cheat and denuvo.
But if the cheats are at kernel level, how can any anti cheat compete without going full server authoritative?
I’m actually a believer in server-sided anticheats. The time feels right to really start developing machine-learning backed anticheats that basically analyize how you play. Look up VAC Live
Valve is putting serious money behind Linux and has a lot of pull with game devs. They will fall in line soon.
Yep. No way Activision’s going to leave an addressable market as big as SteamOS is trying to be just sitting on the table. Especially if Valve puts some incentives behind it.
It’s always the fucking suits.
But then they only manage to make dissident movements bigger.
COD is going to beg to be let onto the Steam marketplace.
And it’s gonna be great.
It makes no sense to me not allowing anticheat on unmotivated steamOS…
I mean, valve could even build something in, like secure mode, where you have a secure little linux root system for each anticheat game together with a online hash to check against this hole separated file system
Like when you start the game, steamOS boots in this separate root system
Anti-cheat, even kernel level anti-cheat has worked on Linux for a very long time. Some of the most popular products used by AAA have been available for years. They just intentionally refuse to make their products work on Linux.
Remember Genshin Impact, for example. It literally has an internal flag that instantly closes the game if it detects it is running on Linux. There’s no technical limitation for any of those big multiplayer titles from working, they just don’t want them to.
Unmotivated? Its a literal checkbox in the anticheats that games package to enable running in Proton. This is not Valve’s responsibility, but idiot or lazy game companies/devs.
Secure boot is what I think you’re thinking of because of Battlefield 6. But as I understand from just skimming it, its handled a bit differently in Linux than Windows, so unsure of how that could be handled or adapted for native Windows games.
Haha, unmodified, of course
Yea, no, was more thinking, if devs don’t trust anticheat with proton, they may trust Valve implementing a console style semi-ROM filesystem on a secure separate partition that is only writable with secret key from valve in some sort and the game is installed there in symlink style, but anticheat is built into that semi-ROM.
Like a Linux-Subsystem-Console
I am just writing showering thoughts, I don’t play games that require anticheat software…
I have to keep using the megacorporate OS because the other megacorporation won’t let me play their slop game unless they can install a virus on my computer!
It’s Activision-Blizzard. It’s the same megacorporation
Ah right, I forgot MS bought them.
ActiBlizzcroSoft
Macroshaft
Honestly more trustworthy.
MicroVisZard
Man I remember when both those names were something to get excited about.
been playing on linux for many many years.
never once have I been stopped by kernal level anticheat.
Weird, its almost as if good games don’t use invasive spyware rootkits.
I feel like the steam machine could actually change the trajectory of gaming. I mean look at the playstation 5. It was crazy overhyped, they don’t have any games, pay to play online, the next one is around the corner. The xbox is somehow even worse. If the steam machine sells, linux is gonna see an insane push and the game developers have to sink or swim.
If that was true the steam deck would have already done it.
Steam Deck is held back by the perception of mobile gaming. Many don’t know how powerful it is, so it competes with the Switch more than PS5.
Well and even then it revolutionized gaming on Linux somewhat. We are now at over 90% playable games, while a few years back we scratched at the 50% mark.
Steam deck hasn’t sold that many devices compared to PlayStation, switch, or xbox. Wildly successful for what it is? Yes. Was it ever going to become a significant % of all gaming consoles? No.
As much as i love video games, steam devices and all that jazz, i never saw a reason to get a steam deck.
Yeah, I know I’m not the target demographic.
That doesnt mean I dont think its an interesting piece of tech, and I would like one as a toy/curiousity… but i’d only get one if I can get it used/second hand and dirt cheap (and probably broken, so i can drive the price lower and fix it myself)
The steam deck competes with consoles and most of the pc world. It has different form factor but it is a pc.
Eh, it’s gonna depend on your taste in games. If competitive multiplayer games are your thing, then it is a problem. But sure, there’s lots of people who have zero interest in competitive multiplayer.
Not all competitive games require kernel level anti-cheat. Marvel Rivals, Overwatch, Valve’s games, and Halo all work under linux. It’s only a problem for people who want to play certain games like LoL, CoD, or Apex.
Sure, but as it happens with multiplayer games, you typically have a friend group that plays a certain game. Getting all of them to switch to another game can definitely be a problem.
I don’t need it but I want it. The GabeCube has basically the best of both worlds, the ease of use of consoles and the multi purpose usage of a PC. That’s also why it can’t be priced like a console I’m afraid. It has to be sold at least at cost (production+development) and can’t be subsidized by game sales like a PS or Xbox. A console without games is pretty much useless, the Steam Machine without games is still a damn fine PC.
If it was sold at a loss, businesses would scrape the whole supply and pave them for windows desktops.
That just wouldn’t happen unless the steam machine costs less than $300. That’s usually the top a corporation is willing to pay for bulk mini nucs, which is all that they want for clerk desks. Information workers get laptops with dell or HP embossed in the lid. Workstations for top design or video editing require way more juice than the Steam Machine can deliver, those are bought on order to professional boutiques, or they just buy Apple. Also, no administrator will sit on the steam shop page to buy one at a time, they like their bulk purchases and Valve can simple refuse anyone buying hundreds of machines. Then, corporations don’t just want the PC, they want tech support, advanced guarantee schemes, etc. This usually come with a subscription per seat. All things Valve simply won’t provide. It won’t even register as an option for businesses.
This is an unfounded concern.
Not an unfounded concern if you remember the PS3. The original model was sold at a loss, and also able to run Linux.
People were buying them like crazy for non gaming uses, including building super computer clusters. An entire aftermarket of various small vendors essentially flipping PS3s with various Linux distros flourished, including offering the usual suite of tech support services that Sony didn’t. There was even a black market for the gutted bluray drives, which were expensive, but useless in clusters.
PlayStation 3 cluster - Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3_cluster
Meh, sure it was an operational loss for sony. But there’s a slew of condintions so different from the ps3 to the steam machines that it’s very hard to compare them. First of all, the Linux PS3 never actually worked. It was janky and required a ton of workarounds and hacks, not really a viable desktop PC. The famous calculation clusters were created by universities and technology enthusiasts. The processing units are too niche for day to day use, having virtually no consumer software for them.
Second, Sony got pushed into a higher cost of manufacture than planned because of a shortage of blurays and the rise in costs of their unique silicon manufacturing. Some say it was more than 100% over their expectations. And I still remember people in the gaming scenes complaining that it was too expensive.
Third, speaking of bluray, the ps3 was way too ambitious technologically speaking, to not be a good target for this type of scalping. First commercial bluray, first HDMI output, a “supercomputer for the living room” vision. If anything, it was the cheap bluray angle that drove scalping and shortages, not the OtherOS capabilities.
I still think it is an unfounded concern with the Steam Machine. Valve already said, it won’t be sold at a loss. It has no specialized technological advancement in particular. It is a mid range entry PC at the most. Having worked with many IT teams and business acquisition teams, it is just not a very attractive proposal. It will be seen as a gaming toy. No exec wants to buy toys for employees.
Lotta small businesses out there.
Not enough to cause a shortage. As I said. No business will pay more than a couple hundred for a PC. If they need more juice, then the steam machine won’t be it. It is more like an enthusiast or a content creator midlevel machine.
No business will pay more than a couple hundred for a PC.
This definitely isn’t true. Every company I’ve worked for has provided fairly expensive laptops. Really curious where you got the idea that businesses are universally so cheap they’d end up spending more long term because they bought absolute trash computers.
Way to take the comment out of context and build a strawman. I was reiterating something I said in more detail in a higher up comment. Companies do buy expensive laptops. I said so. Mind you, the steam machine is, emphatically, not a laptop.
I don’t know what point you’re making. Just because it’s not a laptop doesn’t mean many companies out there have some $200 limit on computers.
You are taking the comments too literal. If something is subsidized (which means cheaper than normal) and it is useful as a PC or PC parts, it will be vacuumed up by non-gamers as well.
You are technically correct about mega corps and such but missing the point being made. Every subsidized PC not bought by gamers is lost money for Valve.
Megacorps won’t sit and refresh Steam sure, but fucking scalpers absolutely will. There are lots of shady middlemen companies that will buy them up from eBay and resell to small businesses too.
Hell, I’d snap one up and resell on eBay in a heart beat myself if this thing goes for anything close to what a PS5 sells for. Let’s say $1200 in parts, I buy for $700, I resell for $900, reseller scoops up a few hundred at a time off ebay, sells in bulk to small businesses for $1100… Everyone wins… Valve fucking loses. Now, let’s say a million people do the same thing because it is free money.
This is how this works and why they can’t subsidise this thing like Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft have. (Also why Xbox doesn’t run actual windows for that matter.)
I dunno. The Deck is/was sold at a slight loss in the hopes it would drive Steam sales.
Maybe so, but while the Deck has a desktop mode it is primarily still a console and used as such by the vast majority of its users. No-one in their right mind would use it as their main PC unless they absolutely have to.
The Machine on the other hand, I can totally see that happening.I’m currently using my steamdeck as my main PC, because of my cramped dorm room space at college lol.
It’s kinda neat figuring out what works and what doesn’t. The worst part is the immutable updates removing non-flatpack software.
There’s a project that persists non-flatpack software, though it might screw up if it changes something that Valve updates: https://github.com/Chloe-ko/SteamDeckPersistentRootFs
A more reliable method would be installing them in distrobox. It’s kinda like a VM, but it uses the same kernel so it’s not much slower.
And it worked, anecdotally from my perspective as a Steam Decker. If there are two identical sales on differing platforms (like Ubis🤮ft) I choose the Steam one so I can play it on the Deck.
I think the main problem is since the steam machine is relatively open and, if it is sold at a loss, then companies will bulk buy them to replace their infrastructure. A bit like what happened to one of the PlayStation releases.
The playstation 3 sold like that because of the super powerful (compared to cost of equal pc at the time) cpu. The gabecube isn’t unique hardware wise, so even at cost, or slightly below, I couldn’t see this being a goto machine for infrastructure replacement. Many current sff devices already have more powerful cpu options available.
I mean thats gonna be the joke. If steam machine really does take off, developers will come, just like they’re starting to cater to the deck. It’ll set a standard for what people want to play on and what they need to make sure their game works on. This is beyond anti cheat and DRM but it’ll be interesting to see how the momentum picks up.
I’d bet that Microsoft is already thinking about getting gamepass working on it (for better or worse)
Depends how much the thing costs.
Oh yeah I don’t mean to imply that it’s a guaranteed success, you’re right.
The hype is real though.
The hype is earnest
I wish laws represented the interests of the 99%
Wish granted, laws represent the owners of 99% of all wealth.
That monkey better not dare curl one of his fingers up for that “wish”! Nothing was changed. 😂
Just don’t turn it on?
The computer you mean?
Until 6 months from now when they turn it on by default, forcing you to apply a registry hack to disable it after every update from now on.
But that’s only if Microsoft decides to continue consistent behavior going on for decades. Yeah, you’re right. Totally nothing to worry about.
The only thing I have to fuck around with like that is the setting for Windows Update itself. It’s pretty annoying but also pretty different from an AI feature (because the modification I want to make delays updates, which is less secure). Maybe you’re thinking of something specific?
Anyway, yes, if they add an AI agent that you can’t turn off without hacks, that would be bad. But given that they haven’t done that, complaining about the law (without saying what the law is lacking) is silly. What would the law say - “don’t add features to software if any user doesn’t want it?” there is no way to make what the commenter above said make sense.
There’s a plethora of settings that Microsoft reverts on updates. That’s well known.
Guess you agree that this isn’t something the law should be involved with. Cool chat.
No specific policy was mentioned. I certainly think Microsoft should be subject to many, many more laws than they are currently, and I wouldn’t mind if they were prevented from circumventing user preference repeatedly. But you don’t even believe that this insanely well known thing happens and that sort of prevents a further conversation anyhow, so yes, cool chat.
I don’t think I need it, but I’m super glad it’s going to exist.
If it came with a native DVD reader and my PS4 suddenly died, I’d have some choices to make, however.
I’m 1000% certain you could attach a Blu-Ray drive via USB without internet telemetry, unlike Sony’s policies ;)
Edit: fixed rogue “care of” character, will contact GrapheneOS team lol
The idea did occur to me a minute after I’d commented. After my PS4 gives up, I’ll have choices to make.
Wow, I just realized that’s the default key on GrapheneOS lol, I should file a bug report.
The DRM measures of blurays make a hassle to play any legitimately purchased movie, especially 4k ones, a big hassle on any operating system. Not as plug and play like with DVDs…
I don’t want to rip them before watching them or search hours in obscure forums for a leaked description key…
This would be more useful for game ripping - did that for a lot of my PS3 games due to the large filesizes.
MakeMKV thankfully exists, though 4k is a hassle even with that.
I wonder if it could support an external DVD/BD drive via its USB ports. I assume yes, but that would be an extra purchase for you.
My Steam Deck feels about on par with PS4 in terms of power, and they say Steam Machine will be more like a PS5, so it sounds like it would be an upgrade over your PS4. Just more expensive, especially if you’re buying a disc drive.
I think that this thing coming out will only be beneficial to PC gamers, especially Linux users. This will encourage further development and standardization.
Kinda yeah. Like I said I’m happy it’ll exist, it’s just that I don’t like to spend money on upgrades for the sake of upgrades.
If it does not work on Linux I simply won’t buy it.
Yes, the same. It being the machine of course
Machine, software, peripheral, whatever.
