It’s not fun interacting with them when they often want to engage in ad hominems. This is why I have no interest in the tankie triad.
Huh? They are openly tankies why would this be a hot take?
It’s not fun interacting with them
Semi related: Something weird has been going on at dbzer0 yesterday and today. They are not normally tankies, they always seemed like they were just kind of sensible and doing their own thing, but since the time of the “pro AI” vs “anti AI” thing they now seem to have declared absolute scorched earth war on “the liberals” in the same way that the triad always has.
It’s like all the issues all of a sudden came out at once. The Dragonfucker argument is back, someone has been following me around all day and hectoring me on random topics and just told me UniversalMonk did nothing wrong, they all of a sudden hate PugJesus with a hundreds-of-comments-wild-personal-attacks passion, the “anti-AI troll” banning random people mod is now posting tankie stuff… it’s fuckin’ nuts. It came out of nowhere.
They are not normally tankies
What, in your opinion, makes us “tankies” from what you just said? Respect for the neopronouns, intolerance towards Genai-hater trolls, or mod actions towards someone who went on a harassment campaign towards one of our users?
Anarchists always had very similar critiques towards capitalism as Marxists. Where we differ is what we do about it, and these actions is what can label someone a “tankie”
I didn’t say you were tankies, I actually said you were not. I just said something weird was going on with dbzer0. Your comment here, I say without really meaning any hostility by it, is more weird stuff.
Every single one of the issues you’ve listed, you’ve reframed it into something different than it was. Neopronouns were never the issue, it was blahaj shielding a transphobic troll from criticism and banning people who complained about them (complained about them while using accepted pronouns, usually while explicitly saying ‘yes I’m fine using people’s pronouns’), purely because the troll cleverly decided to involve neopronouns into the issue. And then pretending that anyone who was on the “enemy” side was obviously a pronoun-hater and that was the entirety of the issue.
Intolerance towards genAI-hater trolls was never the issue, it was random mod actions against people who were not genAI-hater trolls. And then pretending that anyone who got the random unwarranted mod action was probably a genAI-hater troll.
Both of those are the dishonest framings that the people defending whatever weird decision love to use. And, no matter how often it’s pointed out to them that some other people disagree with their framing, they simply ignore it, as if the person hadn’t said anything at all, and repeat the framing that conveniently makes their answer the only possible answer. That is textbook tankie-instance behavior. It’s part of what makes them insufferable to try to talk with. Even if your politics are clearly not tankie.
And, of course:
someone who went on a harassment campaign towards one of our users
Aha!
“One of our users.”
That’s the root of the issue, to me. You’re starting to treat “your users” differently than other users.
One of your users spent part of yesterday following me around and replying to me in a few different threads demanding that I take part in an argument I’d already addressed and then told them I wasn’t interested in continuing. Is that harassment? No, because it’s your users.
There’s this massive thread accusing PugJesus of all kinds of stuff: That he’s pro-Israel, that he’s a terminally online weirdo loser, that he never backs up anything he says, that he bans anyone who criticizes Israel, that he’s transphobic and doesn’t respect people’s pronouns, that he’s a twat, and so on. That’s completely fine, because he’s a “lib.” He’s the enemy. We can all yell at him, insult him, nothing needs to be justified, it’s a big hateful groupthink that defines things in terms of enemies (and a crucial part is twisting things around so that someone can be defined as a horrifying enemy in some way, which is why they’re pretending he is pro-Israel) and in-groups. Why is that all okay? Because he’s not one of your users. He’s the out-group, he is a liberal apparently.
In some forums, that kind of thing is disallowed. If you make personal attacks or insults, you get mod action. If you pretend someone said something they didn’t say to stir up shit, you get mod action. Ada’s description from a different domain was actually pretty good: There are certain types of respect that are not “a reward for good behaviour.” They’re just what we need to do for each other to keep the community on the rails. On most of Lemmy, the mod action for violating that kind of respect is overtly one-sided; if you’re in the in-group, it’s allowed, if you’re aiming it towards the in-group, then you get mod action because it’s a crisis.
Does that one-sided moderation, and officially badjacketing people as “Zionists” and genocide supporters and then going full-bore against them as a result, mean you’re tankies? Not in the literal sense, no. But you’re starting to act like the tankie instances, all of a sudden, when it seems to me like you used to be chill and sensible. You had your politics but you weren’t dishonestly attacking and moderating against anyone who had some different kind of politics, and mobbing up against them like Lord of the Flies. Now it seems like you are, and it happened (from my POV at least) all of a sudden out of nowhere, and it’s weird to me.
(Yes, I know what badjacketing means. I placed it in the sentence the way I did to make a point.)
I disagree with your framing. I think you’re being dishonest in your framing on what caused the mod actions. At the end of the day we and Ada are beholden to our respective users, and as it turns out, they think those were the right choices.
And yes, we’re going to take action about harassment of our own users, that’s the duty of an instance admin. I want to point out however that all this brouhaha is over a 7days ban. Literally the mildest of punishments ever, and you’re at the point of pondering what’s rotten in the whole instance and writing walls of text, over a short term “chill out” ban.
I disagree with your framing. I think you’re being dishonest in your framing on what caused the mod actions.
I can’t count how many times someone on or off blahaj tried to explain that Dragonrider’s trolling, encouraging other users to suicide, things like that, were the core of the issue. If you really want to join Ada in pretending that there’s a whole Lemmy population that’s just frothing at the mouth to dictate to other people what pronouns they can and can’t use, and that was what got them heated up about Dragonrider and nothing about any of the other stuff, I won’t stop you. I started to dig up old messages to put together a timeline, but then I realized I don’t care and I think the issue is pretty clear enough already.
At the end of the day we and Ada are beholden to our respective users, and as it turns out, they think those were the right choices.
This was pretty much my point. lemmy.ml and Hexbear love how their admins behave, and that’s all the admins feel like they need to know. My point was that (a) you’re starting to operate along the same lines, it looks like, and (b) that’s not always a good thing.
I want to point out however that all this brouhaha is over a 7days ban.
Personally, I don’t care about the ban itself. I actually agree with you that PugJesus making a whole community to whine about how unfair it is is kind of childish. I care more about the bullying and fact-free mentality, that big thread with people making up nonsense about the target of the day.
Honestly, I think calling what’s ongoing “bullying” is kinda strange. If anything we wanted to cool the situation down.
This was pretty much my point. lemmy.ml and Hexbear love how their admins behave, and that’s all the admins feel like they need to know. My point was that (a) you’re starting to operate along the same lines, it looks like, and (b) that’s not always a good thing.
I would rather show me which admins are more centered on what every rando on the internet thinks. Then I can point you to someone about to have a burnout.
Honestly, I think calling what’s ongoing “bullying” is kinda strange. If anything we wanted to cool the situation down.
Quotes from the thread:
The person in question is extremely rude and toxic. I have reached out to the LW admins regarding that he seems unfit to be moderating a dozen medium to larger communities. Unfortunately i didnt get any reply.
I think he’s an obnoxious dickhead
I remember his username and him being a twat
He’s a genocide-supporting Zionist radlib
a goddam stalker
an angry turbolib who blames the left (and Eugene in particular, for some reason) for the pathetic failure of the corporate-c**k-sucking Democrats
And so on. There’s plenty more, that’s just what I had patience to dig up.
I would rather show me which admins are more centered on what every rando on the internet thinks.
Those aren’t the only two options lol. I’m just saying that “Our users/tribe love that we always take the side of our users/tribe no matter the facts of the situation!” isn’t the good justification that it sounds like, when you phrase it differently than I just did.
Quotes from the thread:
Not sure which thread you mean, but If you think people expressing their low opinions about someone is “bullying”, then, well you haven’t experienced bullying. And also, what the hell do you expect of dbzer0 admins to do about people expressing such opinions? You want us to go around protecting the people you like from public opinion? Like, this is a legit absurd argument path.
Those aren’t the only two options lol. I’m just saying that “Our users/tribe love that we always take the side of our users/tribe no matter the facts of the situation!”
It’s easy to look right when fighting against strawmen.
How about denial of UN-verified sexual assault because it happened against Bad Camp?
It’s like nuance doesn’t exist.
Yes, there were a lot of false accounts of rape on October 7th that were obviously framed based on hateful stereotypes intended to dehumanize. There were also actual rapes that did happen. But to some people everything is black and white and all they care about is whoever is on their ‘side’.
You’ll need to supply evidence for those claims. Creating false accounts of rape is very serious.
The U.N. envoy focusing on sexual violence in conflict said in a new report Monday that there are “reasonable grounds” to believe Hamas committed rape, “sexualized torture,” and other cruel and inhumane treatment of women during its surprise attack in southern Israel on Oct. 7.
The exaggerated and fictional accusations of rape are serious, like the parading through the streets nonsense.
There is footage of them parading through the streets with the hostages and dead.
Stop denying that Hamas raped innocent civilians. They did, they confessed to it, multiple organisations have verified it, victims have come forth with evidence, and they even filmed themselves.
You are replying to a comment that supports the fact that rape did occur as part of the Oct 7th attack.
Are you not able to understand that they both did rape and ALSO that Israel greatly exaggerated it with false claims to dehumanize?
