im so sick of seeing reports regarding men posting in women-only communities and i cant help but get annoyed with these guys.
the rules are clearly presented. either youre not paying attention or youre just an asshole who purposefully throws their opinion in a place explicitly not wanting it.
what the fuck is wrong with you guys?
Mod notice: semi-controversial but serious question has been raised about an actual issue. Keep it civil and stay classy.
If you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. Or at least be tastefully funny about it.
EDIT:
Thanks for providing a great reason to leave this community.
The OP has been hostile in the comments, and in their OP, violating Rule 1, and Rule 5.
Do better.
OK, I pulled out a computer for you so I could see the rules side by side with my post because my mobile client doesn’t allow it.
Rule 1: Be nice and; have fun
Doxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here.
OP came in swinging hot, maybe a little toxic, but there are valid points behind the hot words.
However, OP has shown that they are able to accept other viewpoints from valid arguments (https://lemmy.ca/post/48960508/18080134). So I would argue this is borderline.
I have to say, I have no idea what sealioning is though.
Rule 5: This is not a support community.
It is not a place for ‘how do I?’, type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.
This isn’t a “How do I”. This is an open ended attempt (with some frustration) to try to under why members of the community do certain things.
That’s my view anyway. What’s yours?
“Cite sources of your claim, prove it, and spend ages providing material that I will dismiss as irrelevant!”.
The name comes from this comic:
Sparrohawcs explanation is also a pretty good one.
This is an open ended attempt (with some frustration) to try to under why members of the community do certain things.
I am fine with not commenting in women-only spaces, but that is very much not what OP is trying to do. OP is venting and using a rhetorical question they don’t seem to particularly want an answer to. Is that “requesting support?” Does that extend to emotional/moral support?
I think if the OP is complaining about not following the rules and spirit of a community when posting, it seems appropriate to point out if they are violating the rules (and spirit) of the community they post it in.
Sealioning is when someone pretends to be ‘just asking questions’ in good faith in an attempt to sow discord in a community.
Fuckin’ hate that Kareny lickspittle bullshit. 🤌🏼
Thanks for providing a great reason to leave this community.
It’s not an airport. You don’t need to announce your departure.
Also, I’ve always been a bit skeptical when someone decides to leave a community because they don’t like a post and/or poster. As if they represent the totality of the sub.
It’s not an airport. You don’t need to announce your departure.
I know.
I did it because I wanted to share my point of view, like you have done here. Both of which are admittedly pointless and time wasting endeavors.
Also, I’ve always been a bit skeptical when someone decides to leave a community because they don’t like a post and/or poster. As if they represent the totality of the sub.
It is not about the post or poster, it is about the lack of action from mods in regards to the post or poster. Which is a constant problem in this community that I have noticed, and a good reason to leave it.
I find it funny that you care so much, so thank you for that.
Based on the comments here and in the previous similar post I have seen, the vast, vast majority of people (presumably men) highlight how this is a problem of visibility of posts in public feeds.
It’s a tradeoff between having the community public for discoverability and accepting that many people will not check the rules and violate them, some inadvertently.
The alternative is to make the community private, and accept that women will need to discover a women-relates community by searching for “women”, which doesn’t seem incredibly unlikely.
From the sentiments I read, most people wouldn’t care at all if the community was private and wouldn’t have a desire to “invade” it. I definitely feel part of this group.
Considering that it’s in the interest of the community (apparently) to have only women, I think it’s fair to expect the (minimal) effort from future members to look for it (plus advertising it in posts etc.) on them instead of expecting the vast majority of the users (the fediverse is mostly males) to add friction and having to check the rules of every single community of every post they open (now it might be a community, more might come). Yes, community rules are important, but being realistic, if you don’t behave like an asshole you don’t need to worry about them in 99% of the times.
However, if this tradeoff is not deemed acceptable, I think there is no point complaining about people “invading” women spaces because it’s guaranteed that many people will comment without reading the rules, as I am sure the almost totality of users does all the time. Even without counting the ones who intentionally violate the rule, there is always going to be an organic amount of people who will do so inadvertently.
At this point I think the tradeoff is so clear, that discussing the topic in such a confrontational way looks more like rage-bait than anything aimed at solving the problem.
It’s not immediately obvious when it appears in your feed, I also don’t think people expect to be excluded due to protected characteristics. I know I wouldn’t have expected a community to discriminate.
“The rules are clearly presented”
WRONG! Posts show up in aggregate lists. You know, like the main page of lemmy instances. Where individual community rules do not appear at all if someone clicks on the post directly. I bet a significant amount of the time, people do not even realize which community they’re replying to posts in.
Don’t like it? Maybe Lemmy needs a way to either remove communities from standard aggregate lists, or to force a popup of community rules when a post is navigated to for a first time viewer that hasn’t even seen the community page. Then I’d totally understand being pissed off at first time rule violators.
There’s no way to “force” anything, different clients are going to behave however they like. Maybe if you need that level of control the Fediverse isn’t the right platform to begin with.
Hey, it’s not my desire to have a wholly separate space for a subsection of the community… It’s not my fault OP doesn’t understand the consequences of public message boards. I’m just suggesting ideas that might get closer to their desired mixed reality.
Obviously if they want to do it correctly, it’d have to be something like a separate women-only instance with approved joins. Then they’d be able to facilitate a space where undesirables cannot post.
Why aren’t people checking what community they’re about to participate in? That feels like it ought to be standard behaviour
Knowing which community isn’t the same as being familiar with that community’s rules. Most are going to assume if they see it they can respond in some sort of “normal” fashion. Banning an entire subsection that can still see the community by rule only is asking to have a difficult to enforce rule. Complaining that a difficult to enforce rule is difficult is … a major lack of self-awareness.
Knowing which bin isn’t the same as being familiar with that bin’s rules. Most are going to assume if they see it they can dispose of waste in some sort of “normal” fashion. Banning an entire subsection that can still fit in the bin by rule only is asking to have a difficult to enforce rule. Complaining that a difficult to enforce rule is difficult is … a major lack of self-awareness.
~A person who throws food waste in the recycle
There is a MASSIVE difference between a bin with an entirely different color and/or receptacle and just another community thread.
Nice irrelevant strawman, though.
There’s not. You sound exactly like people who try to justify throwing garbage in a recycling bin
Wrong and dumb
You don’t even understand your own analogy. Genuinely, pathetic.
no u
It feels that way to you. Not everyone shares your opinion
Because it’s unnecessary in almost all cases. So far there is only one community which forbids people to comment based on who they are, but otherwise the rules boil down to standard acceptable behavior according to common sense. It’s also a nuisance for users: I am quite sure nobody wants to click several times and be derailed to check rules (on mobile) for every comment they want to write in every post they see on a feed. If this would be expected as standard behavior, I would guess even less interactions will happen.
the rules are clearly presented. either youre not paying attention or youre just an asshole who purposefully throws their opinion in a place explicitly not wanting it.
what the fuck is wrong with you guys?
The same as with those women wanting to get in this men space? I wonder…
More seriously, you ask a legit question (as it would be legit if it was a man asking why some women so badly want to join in men-only spaces), a question that could trigger an interesting discussion, but why does it have to be so fucking angry? (See how poorly it passes?)
Say I’m a trans female. Can I post then? Trans man? Gay man? Gay woman?
It’s self policing. If they’re being obnoxious or killing the environment or culture of the space, downvote/block/report and move on.
the rules are obvious, and trans inclusive.
if it wasnt for the sheer volume of [presumed] idiots who cant seem to follow those rules i wouldnt have posted. the points is the reports and heavy moderation required.
its like digital mansplaining
So you decide to ragepost in a different community that had nothing to do with it? This community is for asking questions, and it’s pretty clear you’re just phrasing things as a question so you can rage and troll without getting the boot
The rules are not clearly presented when you’re just scrolling through a generic AllPost feed. I’ve almost commented to one of these just the other day before realizing at the last second what community it was.
Also, when you’re discussing men, especially negatively, and expect men to not jump in to defend themselves, that’s a bit naive to think they’ll stay out of it. Some of those threads can get really echo chamber and dogpile feeling.
And people would be throwing a shit fit if the genders were reversed here. I’m sure there are some bitter people out there that don’t like the double standard. There seems to be a lot of overgeneralization where the bad behavior of a select few gets broadly painted onto the entire gender. This, again, has a double standard of being an acceptable thing to do, to the point that even within this thread someone is mocking others for pointing out “not all men” as a response.
Is this about the public community, Women’s stuff, federated on the public fediverse who’s posts get aggregated to the public all feed and which is accessed by a diverse set of software solutions that may or may not force the community rules to be visible before viewing post content?
I try not to engage cause I know about the community, but golly, I can’t imagine how a man might stumble upon that and interact.
I saw a post, added a relevant wiki link, and then my comment was deleted, and that’s fair enough as I didn’t read the rules beforehand.
To reduce the constant barrage of mansplaining :-) I suggest adding a sticky top level comment (or something better), or some sort of filter before a comment is added if possible.
Or set the public instance to public discussion about women’s stuff and set up a private instance with a women’s only application process that is advertised on the public instance.
There’s value in women’s only spaces, and there’s value in spaces for fathers, husbands, brothers, boyfriends, and sons to ask about women’s stuff. By arranging the communities as described they can keep discoverability, exclusivity, AND can stop getting forbidden comments from the public on their public forum.
the rules are clearly presented
I use Voyager. Community rules are hidden unless you specifically go to that community page, open the menu, and select “sidebar”. It’s incredibly easy to miss.
If a community only wants some people posting then a quick fix is to not allow just anyone to post to it.
Man here, there have been several times when I have found a thread talking about men and shitting all over all men and painting with broad strokes, claiming that we are all awful and just looking to use women.
I feel offended at indirectly being included in a group like that, and have joined in discussions in the past to try and explain that we are not all terrible people.
Over time however, I have learned to ignore the hate spewers and just move on.
Personally, if I see a community where the rules are politely explaining the situation, I just block the community out of respect for the xommunity.
Those people hate people who come in and say “not all men.” They will say that it’s obvious they are not talking about all men. They don’t feel like they should make the disclaimer. We have the complaints about “not all men” men here in this very thread.
But what are you going to do? That’s just how women are.
That’s just how women are.
I chuckled.
I mean, not all women, obviously. Shouldn’t have to be said.
For the same reason why women can’t stay out of male-only spaces. Women have been demonizing male-only spaces for decades. If male-only spaces are bad, female-only spaces are bad… I see no other ‘equal law for all genders’ reasonable outcome
They all suck because they eventually become discriminatory and redirect hate
You cannot clearly think if the only people you talk to agree with you
Why the hell SOME women can’t stop generalizing men’s behaviour?
What the fuck is wrong with you, guys?
irrelevant. its none of your business what they converse amongst themselves
This I disagree with, as it’s an open community.
It’s read only to men.
But don’t post, yes. Period. That part is pretty simple.
These comments…
what the fuck is wrong with you guys?
+1
Community rules are community rules, and you can either follow them or get banned from the community. How is ‘women only’ any different?
As for the excuse of visibility: the rule is very often in the title, and the initial post, yet not followed.
As for the excuse of how they can tell: well if they can’t, okay, you evaded detection. But posts very often declare “I’m a guy and this is my take…”
I honestly don’t get it, especially on an internet “refuge” like Lemmy where users should be sensitive to persecution and the importance of safe, moderated discussion spaces.
where users should be sensitive to persecution and the importance of safe, moderated discussion spaces.
Is that why you came to Lemmy? For “safe, moderated discussion”?
I feel like the overwhelming majority of “refugees” were escaping heavy-handed moderation.
